May 29, 2009

Don't blow your next IT security job interview

A security certification won’t get you a job. You need to prove you really know how to keep a company safe

In today's deep recession, accented by continuing layoffs, it might be hard to believe that good security jobs are hard to fill, but they are. Or maybe it's more accurate to say that it's hard to find good security people for those jobs.

I recently helped hire a Web security analyst for a client with a large number of IIS and Apache Web servers. After filtering out hundreds of inexperienced candidates, I settled on a half-dozen people with relevant experience, education, and credentials. (I care about qualifications in that order.)

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During my interviews with all six hand-picked candidates, I was surprised to find out how much they did not know about Web security. They couldn't tell me the difference between a XSS (cross-site scripting) attack and a cross-domain attack. Most were unaware of how to harden the base Web server OSes, and most were unable to describe a SQL injection attack. Only one knew how to isolate different Web sites from others using security accounts and application pools. On a positive note, at least two of them had heard about banner ads being used for malware distribution.

When I informed the candidates aware that they would be responsible for keeping up with the latest ASP/ASP.Net and PHP attacks and vulnerabilities, all to a person expressed surprise that PHP or PHP apps had any vulnerabilities. After the third candidate said this, my jaw dropped. Upon hearing this from the very last candidate, I was just depressed. Where have these people been living? Do they read beyond Facebook and Twitter?

I ended up hiring the only candidate that seemed to express genuine interest in learning more about PHP vulnerabilities. I was doubly depressed that this interview mimicked one I gave a few years ago. Times had changed, but not the quality of the candidates.

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Poobear 29-May-09 9:00am
SANS certs are hard work. GCWN gives you a LOT more than five ways to secure windows. Thanks for the mention!
vonskippy 29-May-09 9:40am
Maybe you'd get quality candidates if the job actually paid QUALITY rates. I hear plenty of horror stories from HR about the poor quality of applicants only to find out they want a PhD, 20 years of high level research experience, a proven and prolific publish history, and a Nobel Prize in either Physics or Chemistry. All for a salary range of $42-$55,000. So is it really a big surprise when you get sub-par applicants? It's simple common sense (so of course that leaves out all you MBA's) - "you get what you pay for".
MT_Head 29-May-09 2:30pm
I forwarded this to a friend of mine with the following note: The clueless interviewees in this article sound like people you talk to every day, don't they? He sent me the following response: And clueless interviewers. ...When I informed the candidates ... If this guy was interviewing people in LA, you'd hope he'd know that OWASP LA meets every month at Symantec's comfy campus in Culver City and there are always guys there that know their s**t and are looking for jobs. LA or no, there are local chapters of professional organizations all over the place. If a candidate is motivated enough to join one and attend meetings in hopes of self-improvement, he's the guy you want - not whatever your headhunter sends you.
ericcase 31-May-09 12:22pm

Hi Roger,

What is a “Web security analyst?” Like Web Master, it is one of those phrases we should not use. Does is mean a web developer, someone that knows ASP/PHP and SQL? Does it mean someone that knows how to lock down the web and DB servers and configure a web application firewall? Is a web security analyst a penetration tester that specializes in web apps, as opposed to OS and network penetration?

I would hope, but not expect, someone that knows how to harden a server to know what SQL injection is. I would expect separation of duties and not have the developer configuring the servers.

Remember, there are only two problems in life: you do not know what you want or you do not know how get it. Sounds like the hiring manager did not really know what he wanted or he wanted a developer that would do a code review, pen test the apps and check that the system administrator had configured the servers appropriately, then prescribe a remediation plan. Hmm, sounds expensive.

JCincy 1-Jun-09 7:54am
Roger, According to your article almost of all of your job applicants (100s of candidates) were tossed out for failing to meet your criteria. This process of elimination left you with 6 candidates that had the experience, education, and credentials to meet your demands. Then the 6 best candidates turned out to be clueless when it comes to web security position. Wow! How is it that everyone BUT YOU, had no idea of what would be involved in doing this job? In this case it seems to me the problem is not with prospective employees. The problem is most likely with the job ad, the recruiting process, the screening process, and the interviewer. Then we get these nuggets of guidance: 1) If you're applying for a security job, learn as much about the job before you show up. Find out what OSes and applications the company runs... Shouldn't this be in the JOB AD, Roger? Go back and review your disappointments from this most recent experience. No wonder you candidates failed to meet your criteria. They had no clue what your criteria was! 2)When asked a question you should know, don't get caught with a deer-in-the-headlights look; rather, have your answers ready to go. That's right pour on the B.S. Is that you how you landed the job of writing articles for InfoWorld?

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